On the eve to his visit to Russia, Prime Minister of India Narendra Modi gave an exclusive interview to the First Deputy Director General of TASS News Agency Mikhail Gusman for TASS and Rossiyskaya Gazeta.
- Thank you very much for the opportunity to meet with you again. We are having this meeting literally a few hours before you fly to Vladivostok to the Eastern Economic Forum, to the Russian Far East. What do you expect from this forum? With what expectations are you going there?
- Hello! First of all, I would like to thank you for coming to us from afar. Welcome to India! I would like to thank the Russian people through you and convey my warmest greetings, because the peoples of India and Russia feel close to each other in many respects.
Once I came to Russia for a bilateral summit, and that evening we were shown a cultural programme. All performers on the stage were Russian, but I was completely shocked by how they portrayed India. The whole atmosphere on the stage was Indian: the performers demonstrated Indian traditions, Indian clothes, Indian culture, and I felt how Russian people love India. That is why I sincerely thank the Russians and convey them my best wishes.
As for relations between India and Russia, I shall note that two years ago, at the invitation of President Vladimir Putin, I visited the Economic Forum in Saint-Petersburg. He invited me to this forum a year ago, and I received this invitation before the elections, when their winner was still unknown (The General parliamentary elections in India were held in April-May of this year - TASS). But he confidently told me: no, you should come. Such trust, respect, and love for a friend are very important in themselves.
As regards relations between India and Russia, I am sure that they are not limited only to relations between politicians or between the capitals, Delhi and Moscow. India is a huge and diverse country. In every country in the world, different regions have their own strengths. And if we want to develop relations, we must get to know the whole country. I believe that if we do not get get to know the Russian Far East, we will not recognize Russia to the end. This is a very powerful region of Russia.
I remember the last time I came to Saint-Petersburg, I was able to talk with the governors of the Far Eastern regions for about half a day. A number of representatives from the Far East came to the Vibrant Gujarat international investment forum (Vibrant Gujarat is an international forum organized by the government of Gujarat - TASS).
And I am ready to make efforts so that this Far Eastern forum contributes to a new strengthening, a new expansion and inclusiveness of the economic relations of India and Russia. That is why I think that this forum is very important.
But this forum is not limited to just meeting and exchanging views. We have been preparing for this forum for six months. A large delegation from the Far East came to us. The chief ministers of our states, ministers of the government, entrepreneurs came there and saw this region with their own eyes. And now I am going there. I am sure that this visit will give a new direction, new energy, and new impetus to relations between the two countries.
- Mr. Prime Minister, you mentioned your previous meetings with President Putin, including at the St. Petersburg forum, now you are awaited in Vladivostok. How is your personal dialogue going, as they say that you have developed a personal relationship, the so-called special chemistry. How would you rate this?
- You see, over the past 20 years, relations between India and Russia have made great progress. But the greatest achievement is trust, which in itself is of very great importance. For the first time, I got the opportunity to meet with President Putin in 2001. Then I arrived in Moscow with the then Prime Minister Atal Bihari Vajpayi (Prime Minister of India in 1996, 1998-2004 - TASS). I was the chief minister of the state (Gujarat - TASS), and this was our first meeting. But Putin did not at all make it apparent that I am less significant, that I am from a small state or that I am a new person. He treated me as friendly as his own. As a result, the doors of friendship opened. We discussed not only issues relating to our countries, we discussed various issues, talked about our hobbies, then about peace and world problems. We talked openly, like our own people. It is very interesting to talk with him, and I openly admit that conversations with him are very informative.
The second point. Putin is a very open person. He speaks directly and expects him to speak directly and clearly. Therefore, we communicate without any “but” and “if”. We clearly understand that President Putin thinks so. Therefore, it is very easy for me to express my opinion to him.
I know that physically he is a very well-built person, he leads an active lifestyle, keeps himself in shape. I love it. He is also interested in the environment, wildlife, the underwater world, especially in the conservation of tigers, and so on. I'm the same by nature. Therefore, it is natural that many things connect us. Thirdly, India and Russia have similar opinions on almost all issues on the international agenda. And if they do not coincide, then the difference is small. This also greatly affects our relationship. With each meeting with President Putin, we are getting closer, and our relationship is developing. In a previous informal meeting, President Putin led me to see the school. I was pleased to meet with the students, and I invited them here to India. They came and met with our students, and it was very nice.
When I was in Russia for the last time, I decided that I would send a large group of Indian entrepreneurs to the Russian Far East, so that at first they would see everything for themselves. So we do everything openly.
-You spoke about the proximity of the Russian and Indian people. This was written at the end of the XIX century by the Russian emperor Nicholas II, when he went on a trip around the world. He even wanted to open a consulate in Bombay. There have never been any conflicts or wars between our countries. I think this could even not happen. What prospects would you see for the future of Russian-Indian relations?
- I note that many people in the world do not know that when Vladivostok was a closed city, the only exception was India, it was India that became the first foreign country to open its consulate there. This is a reflection of trust between our countries.
- I would like to say that our relations in the economy, culture, trade, military-technical cooperation are developing very steadily. And yet, where do you see the unrealized potential? And you will talk about something with President Putin. What issues should be paid special attention from the point of view of developing relations?
- You see, the official forum follows its agenda in discussions, but informal negotiations are of particular importance. And we know from experience that, although this is a bilateral or multilateral forum, President Putin and I will always find time to talk.
We sit together and talk, walk and talk. In our relations there is a special chemistry, a special lightness. Here, in this forum, we will have a lot of time, I hope that we will be able to discuss a lot of issues.
Secondly, our bilateral relations with Russia are one thing. But we speak from a single point of view in multilateral formats, Russia always takes a friendly position towards us. Both we and Russia are dreaming of a multi-polar world. This is what the world needs today. We have gone from a bipolar world to a unipolar world, but now we are gradually moving towards a multi-polar world. At the same time, we must think carefully about all the issues of this progress in order to gradually move forward. India and Russia have the same point of view on this issue.
Continuing the conversation about relations between India and Russia, I want to note that if you intend to develop the Far East, then you need labor resources. And India has great potential in this area. For example, in the Gulf countries, over 9 million Indians have been working since last 30–40 years. In any country of West Asia, the Persian Gulf, when you arrive there, they will be happy to tell you that in the development of their countries over the past 40 years, the role of Indians and their work is very high.
But there is another ability of the Indians, out of those 9 million people who have been working hard and hard all 40 years, not even one has renounced citizenship. All of them remain citizens of India, their families live here in India. They constantly come here, are in constant contact with relatives. This is a feature of the Indian people.
I am sure that if millions of Indians go to work in the Far East, then after work they will return from Russia.
Take, for example, the diamond industry, which is developed in my home state of Gujarat, it has extensive experience in working with diamonds. The Far East is also actively working in this area. Therefore, both parties can join strengths.
It seems to me that nature itself connects us with the Far East. For example, every December Siberian cranes fly to my native state of Gujarat. For them, this is a kind of tourist destination. Siberian cranes fly from there to Gujarat, many Indians go to the Far East. So this is a natural connection.
- You spoke about several of your initiatives with President Putin. I know about another initiative: you and President Putin have led the fight to save tigers, the iconic animal of India. Would you like this movement to become international?
- The fact is that in 2020 we would like to hold a large forum on conservation of tiger population. I remember that ten years ago, President Putin came up with this initiative, and over the past ten years, India has done a lot to save tigers. The number of these animals doubled in ten years. This is a great success for India and for the whole world. I want to consult with President Putin on this subject, as he has extensive experience and interest in this topic.
I would also like to discuss with him questions concerning the development of labor resources. I want to discuss with Mr. Putin the problem of developing labor resources, including in the Far East, and for India to join this process.
- You have one more thing in common that unites you with the President. This is the ability to maintain oneself in a cool physical form. You talked about yoga, because of you there was a Yoga Festival. And now, on your initiative, a new Fit India movement has appeared in India, what tasks do you set for it?
- The natural instinct of a person, and anywhere in the world, is to grow, develop. By all means, a person wants to become stronger, more energetic. This is the very nature of man. Even a small child, when he sleeps, then in a dream tries to walk on his own. We see students ten times a day trying to pull themselves up, to hang on the horizontal bar, that is, they are engaged in physical exercises to become taller. Nobody teaches them. They do it themselves. But today, a person is busy in a routine, because of which this natural instinct is suppressed. People must return to their beginning.
But in order to achieve this , it takes a lot of effort. But if this becomes a collective goal, then even with less effort you can achieve more results. Therefore, I began to create the Fit India mass movement. I believe that Fit India can play a big role in prevention of diseases, while such a movement does not require funds, but gives a greater return. Therefore, I am trying to create a collective action when everyone is engaged together, joining forces, developing methods of training, and an exchange of experience is going on. Development goes on its own.
- I would like to touch upon another important topic in our relations, this is military-technical cooperation. It seems important to note that the relationship is not going on the principle of buying something, but on the principle of cooperation in creating new technologies? Technical ccoperation?How do you rate this area of your relationship?
- I always tell President Putin that relations between India and Russia should not be relations between a buyer and a seller.
We are close friends. And as close friends, we should think about what we can do together in the future.
Information technology is developing well in India; we are making progress in the space industry. Now, when we are developing the Gaganyaan project (Heavenly spaceship - the first Indian manned spacecraft - TASS), Russia will help us with preparation of our cosmonauts. Our cooperation of this kind is not limited only to military-technical and related fields. It goes beyond that.
When we recently invited schoolchildren from Russia to India, they showed brilliant results. They came to us, conducted various experiments together with our students . And as a result, we saw that the students on both sides complemented each other perfectly. President Putin and I were surprised that in some 36 hours they managed to do real miracles. And so we do not want to be limited only by the relationship of the buyer and seller of military technology. We are confident in the technology transfer model. I have already spoken about this several times, and we have even begun to move in this direction.
Today, subject to technology transfer, it is possible to produce military equipment cheaply in India. And we can supply such weapons to third countries at very low prices. This opportunity of India and Russia should be used.
- I should say, Honorable Prime Minister, that if we look at how how our relationship has been developing, The positions of Delhi and Moscow regarding most of the foreign policy problems are very close or coincident. In particular, our countries stand for a multipolar world that takes into account the national interests of all countries and peoples. Besides the bilateral cooperation, India and Russia are actively developing ties and contacts within the framework of international and regional organizations, such as the UN, G20, BRICS, SCO. What is your assessment of our interaction in this field?
-Our relationship has been tested by the different challenges and proved to be resilient for 50-60 years, especially for the past 20 years, India and Russia hold the same position on many international issues. Our consensus influenced world politics. We are not neighbors, we do not have the common border but our souls are alike. Therefore, nothing limits our cooperation. I am surprised that Russian people know songs from the Indian films more than me. They know words and even their meaning.
During the celebration of the 150th birth anniversary of Mahatma Gandhi the Russian artists which spent their whole life in Russia sang the religious song in Gujarati, my state’s language. They performed this song exceptionally well. I even showed the video to President Putin and said:”Look what an incredible performance of these Russian artists”. You are right that the Indian Bollywood films had influence on Russian people. Here I meet young people who also know the Indian songs. Everyone remembers Raj Kapoor. He was more popular in Russia than in India. He was a great artist of our country and four generation of his family are sucessful performers.
Currently the Kashmir issue is in the spotlight of the world. How could you comment on the situation in Kashmir?
-The Kashmir issue has a long history. When India gained independence in 1947, it was divided and Pakistan emerged. But since the moment of its birth Pakistan has dreamt of destroying India and it started with Kashmir. It divided Kashmir and its considerable part is now occupied by Pakistan and even now the Pakistani forces are killing people there. India always work for the benefit of those who live in the Indian Kashmir. We facilitated Kashmir’s peaceful and stable development and in Raj Kapoor’s films you also could see the scenes which were taken in Kashmir.
Pakistan did not like it, that’s why they fought against us but could not win and at that time they started sneakily attacking us. They have turned Kashmir and the Ladakh region into the terrorist camp in 40 years.
43 billion innocent people have died there for the past 20-25 years. We seized thousands kilograms of explosives, thousands of AK-47 refiles. Pakistan exports terrorism, terrorism became an industry. They were creating the sense of isolation in hearts of Kashmir residents.
We have attepmted to solve this problem since Jawaharlal Nehru’s time (the first Prime Minister of India – TASS). But it was not solved. Now India pays attention to the rights of its citizens in Kashmir. You will be surprised but Kashmir’s women did not have the same rights as all women in Indian. The orginary Kashmir’s residents did not have the equal rights with other people in India. Those who had to move from Pakistan to India in 1947 obtained all rights. But those who moved to Kashmir were deprived of the equal rights. They did not even have the voting right. The anticorruption laws did not work in Kashmir.
People in Kashmir expressed their dissatisfaction, they had been waiting for their rights for so long. We believe that they have to obtain these rights as well. They should have a chance to stand firmly on the ground. That;s why we are doing everything for the benefit of the Kashmir people.
Speaking about the elections, in India and even beyond its borders everyone believed that our government would return to power, people only questioned whether we would acquire the majority of seats [in parliament], some of them assumed that there would be no absolute majority. But the mood of our people was such that we were able to go down in history, having received a vast majority. I am grateful to the Indian people for this.
And President Putin loves India. India and Russia believe that we can develop together, of which I am sure, and Mr. Putin. And we are convinced that our nations together can give much to the world.
- Russia is one of the main suppliers of energy resources to India. What is your opinion on the potential and prospects of cooperation between Russia and India in the energy sector?
“You said it right.” One of the important sources of energy for India is Russia. Our companies, and I think this is right, started to invest in Russia, in its energy sector. I understand that oil production and its transportation are expensive. But as a true friend, we love Russia, and when we work together, it is beneficial for both sides. We would like to cooperate even more actively in the energy sector.
- Last year at the UN General Assembly in New York, you were awarded the highest annual international award by the world organization Earth Champion for his outstanding contribution to environmental conservation. We know that you are making great efforts in this direction. Which of your environmental activities is of most importance to you personally?
- First of all, we should not think about ourselves, about the rewards for us. We must work for the good of people, for their development, work in the interests of the citizens of our country for the benefit of the whole world. We must leave a safe planet, a safe world for future generations.
And India is working in the same direction - to preserve nature and atmosphere. This is probably why I was awarded. But when I was the chief minister of Gujarat, then I did not think about whether the UN knew about me or not. I acted as a protector of nature, tigers in my state. I did a great job for this. Since all this is in our culture and traditions.
We must not kill nature. We must respect nature, preserve it, worship it, all this is part of our culture. It is good that the whole world is thinking about it now.
- India is an ancient culture and civilization with rich traditions. How are national traditions and modern Indian society combined today?
- India has chosen its own path of development, where there is no place for a conflict between the old and the new. Why is there no conflict? Because the main mantra of India is not a revolution in which they speak of destruction, abandonment of the old.
India talks about evolution, not revolution
We believe in the eternal soul, in the fact that the body changes depending on the circumstances, but the soul remains unchanged. The Almighty made it so that our body collapses after a certain time and a new one appears. So we work according to the same formula: in a new body we act with new energy.
As Mahatma Gandhi said, as the Buddha said, we believe in the unity of the living: all animals, birds, people, white and black, are one from the East or from the West. We consider the whole world as one family. And so we choose the path without conflict - the path of negotiation, understanding, agreement. Here is the main mantra or idea of India!
We are now going to the present. Our children go into the field of information technology, but we will not just wait for the future. We are ready to use everything that is created by mankind, knowledge is open to all. What we will do must be for the benefit of all.
- In Russia, there is just a tourist boom for India. People want to go to Delhi, and to Bombay, and to the resorts of Goa. Where would you personally advise tourists to go in India, what to see, try? And where do you yourself love to be in your wonderful country?
- If you come to the state of Goa, you will see that there even shopkeepers speak Russian, since many guests from Russia come there. But I would like to say that India is a huge country, that in order to see it, you will have to draw up a program for 20 years in advance in order to stay in each state for at least one month a year. And even this one month will not be enough for you.
If you want to look at snow, desert sand, mountains, beaches, the sea, rivers, steppes, forests, we all have it. Here you can see everything your soul wants. Even the oldest port in the world of the Mohen-jo-Daro era can be seen here - it is located in Gujarat.
- An Indian proverb says that managing a thousand people is as difficult as managing three. You are the prime minister of a country with more than a billion people. What basic principles do you follow in your work? How do you take decisions? How do you keep in touch with over a billion people?
- I agree with you that it seems to foreigners a strange country with 1.3 billion people, in which there are 100 languages, 1700 dialects, completely different landscapes ... How does this fit together?
Firstly, India is a culturally united community. And we accept it.
Secondly, we know about the perception of people from other countries that everything should be governed and directed, but attempts to govern such a country as India are doomed to fail. Therefore, do not even try. India accepts freedom and diversity. We respect each other’s freedom and diversity.
We refused direct control and decided to report what we consider necessary to follow the direction. Send your message in such a way that a person, in accordance with his interests, tastes, capabilities, responds to your message, answers it according to his abilities. Therefore, I do not rule the country, but we direct the country.
Therefore, leading such a country is not power management. It is not like "I am one thing, and you are another." “I” and “we” are not different, we are leading this country together, and we are moving forward, saying not “I”, but “we”. This is the power of the word “we,” with which we are walking with 1.3 billion people to raise the country to new heights.
Thanks!
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